Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate

Hello!
I tried a newly acquired DS3. It seems to work, but when I tried in game (Hogs of War) with EPSXE the rumble doesn't seem to be quite correct.

When I shoot with a weapon that requires "charging" like a grenade. The rumble is supposed to increase all the way until the charge-bar is full. But it sort of cuts off at around 66%.
And only produces a one lazy shake in the rest of 33% of the charge bar. This pattern seems rather constant.

Also the rumble seems a tad weaker than I would expect. Other gamepads that I used including the DS1 of the PS1, some cheap speedlinks and xbox 360 gamepad was a fair bit stronger with this game.

I see no configuration on testing feature for this in DSHidMini Control. Is there some configuration that I can change?

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

I tried a newly acquired DS3. It seems to work, but when I tried in game (Hogs of War) with EPSXE the rumble doesn't seem to be quite correct.

Hi. I assume you refer to this software? If so, what mode are you using? Wired or wireless? Versions used? Screenshots?

Cheers

@nefarius
Xinput. It was selected by default. I'm using it with cable for now. The DHM is the latest version on github, the window shows 2.2.282. (epsxe 2.0.5)

What screenshot is required?

(I'm assuming the gamepad is genuine because the option to check is selected and I didn't get warnings.)

Without knowing the software I assume what you experience is due to the differences in how an Xbox 360 and a DS3 handle/provide rumble.

For example, while on X360 the right/small/weak motor also has a "range" of strength to it, in the DS3 it can merely get turned on or off. We have some additional features in the issue tracker on TODO regarding more control over rumble but that is a topic for future releases as of now I'm afraid.

One idea that comes to mind, you could try to chain DsHidMini and x360ce together, which allows you to manipulate a few more settings about rumble. Just a guess though, I suggest you experiment.

Cheers

@nefarius said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

Without knowing the software I assume what you experience is due to the differences in how an Xbox 360 and a DS3 handle/provide rumble.

For example, while on X360 the right/small/weak motor also has a "range" of strength to it, in the DS3 it can merely get turned on or off. We have some additional features in the issue tracker on TODO regarding more control over rumble but that is a topic for future releases as of now I'm afraid.

One idea that comes to mind, you could try to chain DsHidMini and x360ce together, which allows you to manipulate a few more settings about rumble. Just a guess though, I suggest you experiment.

Cheers

Doesn't seem likely to me. The X360 gamepad I used the least (the gamepad wasn't mine). I'm quite sure it was more in line with the DS1 experience with the PS1.
Isn't there a program I can test/verify rumble with?

(By the way. Is directinput supposed to work on win10? When I choose that option the button presses are not registered in epsxe)

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

Isn't there a program I can test/verify rumble with?

Yep, a few! There's this site and the good old SCPUser app.

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

(By the way. Is directinput supposed to work on win10? When I choose that option the button presses are not registered in epsxe)

Yes, DI is still part of Windows and works fine, but if the DS3 is in "Xinput" mode, you don't really gain anything from that, if the emulator supports Force-Feedback, try the SDF or GPJ modes.

As I said, I encourage experimentation

@nefarius said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

Yep, a few! There's this site and the good old SCPUser app.

Well, the website just says it's not available:

SCPuser produces vibration. Stronger than in the games.
Not sure how it should work. The top slider produces vibrations about from a quarter of the way and vibrates intensely when I pull it.
The lower however only vibrates periodically even when I pull it. Apparently at the same pace and intensity all throught the range of the slider, outside the starting position.

All in all it feels weaker then I expected, but I guess it might be DS3 just doesn't vibrate that strongly.
Doesn't explain the abnormal vibration in-game though.

@nefarius said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

Yes, DI is still part of Windows and works fine, but if the DS3 is in "Xinput" mode, you don't really gain anything from that, if the emulator supports Force-Feedback, try the SDF mode.
As I said, I encourage experimentation

Well I tried setting it to DI and the buttons weren't registered then. The emulator was also set to DI.

How does the genuine check work? Does it warn somehow, or just refuses to work?

If I had no messages does it surely mean the pad is genuine?

No sure what I could figure out of its sticker:

SDF doesn't seem to make a difference. Funnily enough I use Lillypad with PCSX-R but it's the same. Actually it's worse than with epsxe far weaker and more gaps in during the charge bar in-game. If I add rumble multiple times the effect is more pronounced, but the gaps remain. I guess for some reason the rumble is zero there and can't be multiplied.
Interestingly with lillypad it's not cut off three quarters through, it only delivers a few pulses during the whole charge bar.

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

Well I tried setting it to DI and the buttons weren't registered then. The emulator was also set to DI.

That's why it depends on the game/emulator and the mode, you need to find out what works best.

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

All in all it feels weaker then I expected, but I guess it might be DS3 just doesn't vibrate that strongly.

May be, I have so many controllers, I don't particularly pay attention to that

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

How does the genuine check work? Does it warn somehow, or just refuses to work?

Explained here, it is just informative, nothing more.

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

If I had no messages does it surely mean the pad is genuine?

See my link, nobody but the manufacturers can know for certain.

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

No sure what I could figure out of its sticker:

Nothing, see my link.

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

Actually it's worse than with epsxe far weaker and more gaps in during the charge bar in-game. If I add rumble multiple times the effect is more pronounced, but the gaps remain. I guess for some reason the rumble is zero there and can't be multiplied.

This protection mechanism could be the culprit, try experimenting with disabling that.

Good luck.

@nefarius Thanks for the suggestions!

@nefarius So I tried with an actual PS3 and it seemed much stronger, maybe correct. I'm unsure, I couldn't test with the same game.

So, since DSHidMini doesn't support non-original Sony gamepads, is there any chance that rumble might work correctly with the old ScpToolkit?

(It seems to me that you were the developer of that one as well.)

@mzso I don't know, I haven't touched SCP in many years, you are welcome to try as long as you don't expect any support from me

@nefarius said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

@mzso I don't know, I haven't touched SCP in many years, you are welcome to try as long as you don't expect any support from me

I have no other ideas.
I have know knowledge of anyone making workarounds to DSHidMini for non-originals, or a third driver. I assume you don't know of anything else that might work?

Hopefully at least I can switch drivers (and back if it doesn't work) successfully.
Anyway thanks for the help!

@mzso said in Rumble seems abnormal, too weak, and not always appropriate:

I have know knowledge of anyone making workarounds to DSHidMini for non-originals, or a third driver. I assume you don't know of anything else that might work?

It's actually rather simple: DsHidMini and BthPS3 emulate the PS3 behaviour as close as possible on Windows. If the controller isn't happy about it - for whatever reason - then that is the end of the line. I don't know and don't care why some cheap 3rd party crap isn't working; they do something off spec that the PS3 obviously doesn't care much about but Windows will. Since I don't have the source code to Windows and don't have any schematics or insights in the design of the manufacturers of such controllers there is literally nothing I can do about while maintaining my sanity and sacrificing my free time.

TL;DR: as it's written many many times on vigem.org already: if it works; great! If not, welp, life ain't always fair Get an Xbox controller.

Cheers

So, if anyone in a similar situation (fake/aftermarket DS3) cares: I tried SCP Toolkit, and now the rumble seems to work.
The lower slider now results in a continuous vibration which per nefarius' quote ("For example, while on X360 the right/small/weak motor also has a "range" of strength to it, in the DS3 it can merely get turned on or off. ") should be normal.

It's a little strange/unfortunate, that it was 98% working with DsHidMini, only (apparently) the right motor turned on-and-off, resulting in a slow pulse instead of vibrating continuously.